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I've had several people tell me that in order to become a knight in An Tir you have to first be a squire. I've also had some people tell me that is not true. There have been knights and squires on both sides of this so far from what I've heard in casual conversations. If you are a knight in An Tir, do you consider this to be the case? Why? If you are a squire in An Tir, do you consider this to be the case, and why? For those not in An Tir, is being a squire considered to be a necessity in order to become a knight in your kingdom? Are there any examples of knights made in recent years who have not first been squired? Also, if you are from another kingdom, is being a protege or apprentice considered essential before becoming a peer in your kingdom?

Date: 2011-10-24 07:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dame-eleanor.livejournal.com
Bearing in mind that I am not a member of the Chivalry...I don't believe it is any different for the Knights than it is for us Laurels, or the Pelicans. A squire is the exact equivalent of an apprentice, or a protege. Absolutely no difference, just a different colored belt. Squires = red, apprentice = green, and protege = yellow. You do not need to be affiliated with a peer, to be made a peer yourself. There are advantages to being in a relationship with a peer, of course, but it certainly is not a requirement, to the best of my knowledge. And if is a "requirement"...when did it become one? You certainly don't have to be affiliated to be recognized as a Laurel or a Pelican. How could it be any different for the Knights? All three orders are equal.

Date: 2011-10-24 07:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rauokinn.livejournal.com
You don't have to have a knight -- sir Einar got knighted awhile after he gave his belt back to Skapti. That being said, fighting is a sport/ martial art and there are huge benefits to having a "coach" who has a vested interested in your success. Do you need to be someone's squire to get such coaching? No, but it definitely helps with the learning curve and not having too many cooks spoil the broth so to speak. YMMV.

Date: 2011-10-24 08:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] monkeyjunk.livejournal.com
I would agree with my sister, and add some....It is my opinion, that if you have an ambition to be recognized as a member of one of the SCA peerage orders, you need to first make yourself a part of that order. Being a peer's student (of whatever flavor) is a huge "in" towards that end. One also needs to network and socialize with other peers of that order. Not the most important part of being recognized, but a vital element in my opinion.

Date: 2011-10-25 12:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dame-eleanor.livejournal.com
That. Yes, well said.

Date: 2011-10-25 06:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kareina.livejournal.com
My knight, Paul of Somerton, was told when he was young that one must be a squire if one ever wants to become a knight. Therefore he choose to never become a squire and try to prove that theory wrong. He was knighted some time before I met him (in 1991). I have no idea how many others have gone this route over the years.

Is it *easier* to become a knight if you are a squire? I would say yes for those squires whose knights think they are ready. If you have someone on council who thinks you are ready and is willing to speak on your behalf the discussion process is likely to go faster. However, if your knight thinks you are *not* ready and is willing to say so on council that fact is likely to be listened to a bit more closely than the exact same reasons presented by someone without a connection.

May 2012

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